How about this for sick hands

**Cameron_Mahoney** · April 25th, 2005, 01:04 AM

I dislike drum corps very much. That said, I do own Violent Ice Cream, and practice it and other drum corps stuff I find on the net, etc. It's good for my hands. I don't plan on joining DCI, though. It's just not my bag. I'm glad I'm a kit drummer first and foremost. It's more musical, and it's more of a career.

Did anyone else watch those Bill Bachman set clips? He stinks! I mean, he can hold a beat, but he has no flow or creativity. Goign from that fast paced beat into qurater note stops between the snare and floor tom? Yeah, that's cool...

**zmorton** · April 25th, 2005, 01:16 AM

Hmm, I'd agree saying that DCI drummers have more power in their hands. A DCI snare drummer is expected to be able to generate enough sound from their snare drum to fill a NFL stadium with no amplification. When I was in DCI we expected to play really really REALLY loud. This voulume isn't reached by how hard you hit the drum but rather in how fast you strike the drum. Those whove studied any martial arts can see the common concept here. I will say that I have NEVER been called upon to play with this much power in a drum set context.

There was one time where I hit my marching snare drum with so much generated speed and force that I broke through the top head (kevlar) and top rim completly, in a performance no less, lol. This was on a Pearl free floating snare which uses aircraft aluminum hoops which are very strong.

If I used this technique on my drum set with marching sticks I would demolish the drum with one stroke. But like I said in my past post the two disciplines outside of basic technique really are pretty different.

Lets not loose context... If we are talking simply hand technique rudimental drummers take the cake; thats what they do and live for. On drum set hand technique is a means to an end, not the end. Whatever your "end" is, that will dictate what level of hand technique you'll need to develope.

Lets use Denis as an example since he was brought up. I'd say he probaly can bust out a single stroke roll than would keep up with most corps guys but add a complex sticking pattern or some type of flam bassed rudiment in there and I'd doubt Denis could keep up. Has Denis needed that complex sticking pattern to do what he does so well though?

A little off topic but for me the drum corps training gave me enough fundemental technique to be able to teach myself many drum set patterns with no technique hurdle to over come. Just had to work out the four way coordination and physical balance issues behind the kit.

Great topic. =)

[ April 24, 2005 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Zak Morton ]

**boom_boom_dude11** · April 25th, 2005, 01:24 AM

Hey Zak...what about the bd technique? How long did it take for you do feel comfortable?

This cracked me up...

If I used this technique on my drum set with marching sticks I would demolish the drum with one stroke.

The Druminator!

**matricks** · April 25th, 2005, 01:29 AM

The thing that has to be addressed here is that DCI snare drummers don't have to play drumset. Therefore, one has to look for a common denominator... what is that? It is the snare drum. If you look at the snare drum, who has more technical control over that instrument?

Oh, and as far as isolating the hands, yeah one can because the this topic is talking about HANDS and referring to rudimental-corps style drumming. Take away the trappings of a drum set... put a snare in the middle of the room, see whose hands are more developed. My money is not on Dennis, it is on Joe-Schmoe, practice 8 hours a day on a snare but couldn't play a Songo to save-his-life drummerboy here.

**Henry II** · April 25th, 2005, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by PocketPlayer:

"There is a drum set player by the name of Virgil Donati that "trains" just like we do. He is fast and executes with endurance. Many of his peers are afraid of him
-------------------------------------------------

Evidently, getting the respect of the hard core drum corp guys ain't easy.

And Buddy's chops are better that VD's.

**Henry II** · April 25th, 2005, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by matricks:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Nah!

... sorry, it's true. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[ April 24, 2005 03:42 PM: Message edited by: matricks ]<hr /></blockquote>Not from what I've seen.

**Henry II** · April 25th, 2005, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by D.Seipel:
This is something I've often wondered about. Once in a while I hear about these "awesome" snare drummers in DCI. And they are awesome...on a snare drum, not a drumset. I've never seen a DCI snare drummer bust ass on drumset. Drumset and corps drumming are two different beasts.

I used to play in marching band in high school so I've had some experience on it, but it's totally different that playing on a kit. For one, on the kit, I'm not holding tree trunks for sticks and secondly, the heads on a kit aren't kevlar and aren't tuned nearly as high as a marching snare.

When I see awesome DCI guys executing these awesome chops on a snare drum, I can't help but wonder why they don't do it on the drumkit. Actually I have seen an awesome corps drummer on the kit, but he's an awesome player, but the solos are anything like a snare drum solo.

Buddy Rich, to me, sounds like a snare drummer-gone-kit player, which he was.

A snare drum solo (corps drumming) is different that a set solo. I'm not sure how to explain it exactly, but on a kit, the nature and context in which someone plays is centered around three main things:

1.Ostinato (usually a repeated phrase on hi-hat or cymbal)
2.Bass drum (usually tells everyone listening or playing along where the beat of the music is, or the emphasis of the phrase,beat,etc.)
3.snare drum (usually tells everyone listening or playing along where the back beat is and can be used to emphasize or embellish the beat or ostinato ..ie. ghost notes)

Now, a marching band snare drummer, in my opinion, is using a completely different concept when playing a solo or piece:

1. When playing a snare solo, the beat or emphasis seems 'implied' or is defined by the snare drum phrase, in a way. This is opposite of kit solos, where the beat can be implied by other means (bass drum, whatever).
2. solo phrasing in corp drumming seems to be shorter to me, I'm probably wrong, but I never played corps solos,had no interest in them and still don't.
3. Set based solos have the option to be more beat oriented, where snare only solos are sort of beat oriented but it's not as implied as on a kit.

I didnt' exlain the last three cuz i don't have a lot of experience in corps drumming, but essentially, kit drummers are an "army of voices" and a corps drummer is only a "platoon of voices".

Buddy Rich was a vaudevillian from the beginning, not a snare drummer. And I couldn't disagree more with your explanation of a drum set solo. BTW, an ostinato is any repeating rhythm.

[ April 24, 2005 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Henry II ]

**zmorton** · April 25th, 2005, 01:37 AM

Not very long actually. My hands are about ten years ahead of my feet though; so I'm not pulling out any Virgil bass drum licks, haha. Actually I only play a single pedal. But to "feel comfortable" not long.

As strange as it may sound I would just conceptulize my feet like my hands and when I'd encounter problems I'd remember what I did with my hands to develop them and apply similar techniques to my feet.

The biggest hurdle in switching to drum set was really more on the mental/approach side of things.

**matricks** · April 25th, 2005, 01:39 AM

In fact, it was the talent shows that caused the greatest frustration to corp players. They could not understand for the life of them why everyone went crazy over these guys playing such simple beats. They didn?t understand the power of music and playing a song in a band, no matter how basic it was.

And that is 100% true! I could admire amazing technique all day but at the END of the day, hearing some fat beats... that is where it is at.

I remember seeing Planet X live and watching Virgil shred it during a solo... then, for about 4 bars he launched into an over-the-bar syncopated groove (with nice Bass Drum work, but no double pedal, thank you) and everyone, including me, in the crowd went nuts. It was all that tension, building white noise and then it was released in a f*'n sick groove that was closer to a 2&4, James Brown on acid/meth feel, than it was to a 19 over 13 polyrhythm.

So yeah, at the end of the day, i still say that Corps guys have been chops in the hands, but hell, Dennis will still give me 1,000 times the thrill than they will.

**matricks** · April 25th, 2005, 01:40 AM

Not from what I've seen.

Then you've got some downloading to do [img]wink.gif[/img]

Thread: How about this for sick hands

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